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Post by mone on Mar 31, 2015 5:33:20 GMT
You're essentially saying shoulder peeking is fair because Jackson and John will learn to not play pizza in the long run. Not only does this make zero sense but this has absolutely nothing to do with why shoulder peeking is fair. Yes, even if it's just for one round, it's still unfair, one round can mean the game. I've also said plenty of times that this unfair situation does not only apply to green container, it also applies to all other right walls. Green container isn't the only right wall meaning that more unfair situations will occur. If it makes you feel any better, it won't happen only once. Does it even matter if it happens plenty of times as opposed to once? There is no difference between unfair game-play happening one time than multiple times, unfair game-play is still unfair game-play, therefore no, it doesn't matter. So stop using the but it will only happen once so we shouldn't ban shoulder peek argument because at the end of the day, it's still unfair and that's the point that I'm making. Our argument has always been about why shoulder peeking is fair or why it isn't.
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Post by dzhao on Mar 31, 2015 7:05:23 GMT
Please please please read every sentence of this post.
This is a theoretical viewpoint. Nothing that I'm saying will probably ever happen but I believe people play the game to achieve a dominant strategy that maximizes their chance of winning the game. Keep that in mind as you read on. (Also just because we'll never achieve an idealist ca doesn't mean my argument is weak, and if it is please explain)
So what am I saying? Over time players adapt. So that they will prevent themselves from getting picked in sp. They also know that after the half they'll get to use the same op spot (green container) and if they don't pick someone at pizza clearly their opponent has found a better strategy against the sp.
Players adapt so that both teams will understand what is unfair in each map. Players will work to find the best strategy around these spots. It will take time, but it will happen. Therefore in the long run all is well since a dominant strategy to combat the sp is found. Even if the DOMINANT strategy (which means there is no better one available) is to die to the sp, then it is ok because after the half, you know you'll kill an equal amount of people in the same sp because there is no way around that sp (no strategy that is stronger, thus dominant).
So all this talk about "players play differently" is a short term issue. When players play different strategies it shows that the dominant strategy hasn't been found and it will be found over time. Don't ban sp just because some players haven't found what the dominant strategy is. It takes time which requires people to lose games and rounds but that is a learning process and the better team wins since the team that won played a dominant strategy while their opponents played an inferior strategy.
Unfairness from sp can be adapted to. When people lose to sp it is not because of the sp. It is because they haven't found the dominant strategy to combat the sp.
So now you say, but you speak in idealist terms! This ideal situation of dominant strategies sounds like there will only be one/(few) strategies in the perfect future of competitive ca. Well isn't this true for a world where sp is banned as well? A dominant strategy will be found in a world without sp as well! The dominant strategies will be different from one another but there will be one (or a collection of equally strong strategies.)
TLDR So why not let ca adapt to sp and have players search for dominant strategies that take sp into consideration? If sp was banned people would still be looking for a dominant strategy. Essentially, sp doesn't change the purpose of the game: A search for the dominant strategy. This way we don't have to deal with all the fuzzy rules that go with enforcing the sp rule.
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Post by mone on Apr 1, 2015 9:26:13 GMT
Hi Zhaomaster, sry I totally forgot about this thread. ill read waht u said some other time ^_^ I promise 2 get bak 2 you. i sleep now, our argument is on pause
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Post by Cadet on Apr 5, 2015 19:53:27 GMT
Scopes should at least get a USP
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ALLOYS
1LT
Posts: 204
Clan: SinClair
ESL Nickname: Awptimus
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Post by ALLOYS on Apr 6, 2015 8:46:32 GMT
Scopes should at least get a USP not even, scopes are already one shot kills. Coming from someone who scopes a lot, I believe its fair.
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Solvite
Pug/Draft Staff
Posts: 41
Clan: Vernai
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Post by Solvite on Apr 8, 2015 13:37:31 GMT
Scopes should at least get a USP -1
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